By Mentor Nazarko
Part one
Memorie.al – This interview with Ramiz Alia, part of a series published in the newspaper Abc in the autumn of 2005, is undoubtedly the longest, most complete, and most unfettered exclusive interview given by the former communist president at the end of his life. We have chosen to offer the perspective with which he views Mehmet Shehu, and it is clear that Ramizi has broken away from Enver Hoxha’s official line, according to which Mehmet was a poly-agent.
Mr. Alia, what were the stages of your intellectual formation, starting from your high school years, a period about which you have good memories? Who were the spiritual, philosophical, and literary idols of that time, and what were your relationships with your high school classmates? Were there any among them who became well-known figures, and particularly, what were your relationships with Todi Lubonja, who even today remains one of your friends?
Alia: I was born in Shkodër, where I completed two grades of elementary school. Later, the family settled in Tirana, where I continued my schooling. After finishing elementary school at the “Red School,” I enrolled in the Tirana high school.
At that time, the capital’s high school was one of the best schools in the country, and do not forget that there were only the Shkodër high school, the Korçë Lyceum, the Elbasan “Normal” school, and the Tirana high school. These were the complete secondary schools, apart from the Technical School in Tirana.
I want to say that the Tirana high school was an institution where quite learned teachers and pedagogues taught. I had very good teachers, such as Vangjel Gjikondi, Minella Karajani, Sotir Angjeli, Vasil Andoni, Mihal Zallari, Vedat Kokona, Nonda Bulka, etc. The school’s principal was Safet Butka. When the University of Tirana was founded, most of them became founding pedagogues of that university.
Life in high school was special: at that time we read a lot, as young people, and in that environment we were formed in every sense. In 1939, at the time of the invasion, I was attending high school, and it was precisely this moment that marked for the youth of the schools the formation of the anti-fascist sentiment.
After 1941, the year of the creation of the Communist Party, when the anti-fascist movement encompassed all school youth, I entered the Communist Youth Organization.
I say this because it also marks my involvement in political life. This time also determined my close friends, with whom we discussed various issues in different fields. I had many friends, some of whom were killed, such as my close friend Manush Alimani, Siri Kodra, Zeqi Agolli, etc.
We discussed politics, but also culture in general. We read literature, mainly Italian, but also American authors like Steinbeck, Mark Twain, Dante, etc.
Was there any affection of the Albanian youth for Dante, for other popular poets, for Italy? We are referring to a period of Italian cultural penetration…?
Alia: Of course, there was. But many others were also read. At that time, we also read philosophers like Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, etc., because there was great curiosity. We did not know Marx well. We only knew some of his basic theses. You mentioned Todi Lubonja. He is a figure with whom I have been connected all my life, from youth until today.
Todi was in a higher school year than me. We were childhood friends and our houses were close to each other in Tirana. Even after liberation, we worked in sectors that linked us through work, such as the youth sector, culture, etc. There is no need to go into Todi’s history.
Did you feel regret for Todi’s fate, and what did you do to change that fate?
Alia: What happened with Todi, I have always said, based on the party line at that time, was considered a mistake. I myself have been of the opinion that there were exaggerations there (at the 11th Festival), always according to the political line of the time. For this, I personally criticized Todi, on the evening of the festival.
But, as events unfolded, especially Todi’s imprisonment, I suffered personally, as for a close friend of mine. But, understandably, at that time, more than expressing my pain, I could do nothing.
But when you became First Secretary and President of Albania, you had all the possibilities then?
Alia: Yes. They might say, why didn’t you do anything for Todi? But Todi was not the only problem. The problem was that at that time, the cases of dozens and dozens of party cadres who had been convicted needed to be reviewed.
So, to undertake such a review would have been extremely difficult for me. It would have been considered a breakaway from Enver Hoxha’s path, a breakaway from the entire activity of the party up to that time, a review, a complete revision of the party line, which could not be done.
The case of Mehmet Shehu continues to occupy newspaper pages even today. Do you have any current reflection prompted by this press? What can you say about him as a political and intellectual figure? What was your relationship with him?
Alia: As for Mehmet Shehu, the fundamental question that various authors write about today is: Did he kill himself, or was he killed? I will say categorically that Mehmet Shehu killed himself, and the proof of this is not where the pistol was found or where it was not found, but the letter written by him. In that letter, written in his own hand, it is stated that he is killing himself; he gives his recommendations, etc., etc.
In those recommendations, did he also mention you…?
Alia: In that letter, he also mentions me, in the sense that he tells Enver Hoxha: “beware of the people around you,” he mentions Kadri Hazbiu, whom he calls “Iago,” he mentions my name and Foto Çami’s. But mainly, my name, which he characterizes as “Khrushchev,” etc. These were thoughts that Mehmet had.
Why did Mehmet have this opinion of you?
Alia: Before I say why he had this opinion, I wanted to show my relationship with Mehmet Shehu, or rather, my opinion of Mehmet. He was a talented cadre and leader of our country.
He was learned, a man who read, sharp from a political point of view, very hardworking and active. He had not left a single area of Albania that Mehmet had not set foot in, as they say. From this point of view, he was without a doubt one of the main cadres of the party.
Were there divergences with you that led him to reach such conclusions?
Alia: Not divergences. He did not agree with, or viewed with a sectarian eye, my stance, which was relatively mild. I was not harsh with the people I worked with, with the sectors I oversaw, etc. For example, what happened with the group that included Todi Lubonja, which was the sector I directed, happened.
Mehmet stood up at the Central Committee Plenum and said that Ramizi is responsible, meaning he wanted, in one way or another, to implicate me in that problem as well.
So, at that time, your relations were cold?
Alia: They were never cold, but I would say correct. My relations with Hysni Kapo were much closer than with Mehmet.
Mehmet’s stance in the final letter before his death—did it originate from your critical stance towards him at the Bureau meeting?
Alia: No, I don’t believe so. My stance was measured. I did not engage in criticism of Mehmet with empty words. But Mehmet must have formed that opinion of me earlier, seeing my tolerance in directing the sectors for which I was responsible.
I was more understanding with people. I was not harsh in directing those sectors, where he thought foreign influences were appearing, becoming visible.
Could it have been part of a power struggle? Perhaps he considered you as his main rival to be Enver Hoxha’s successor?
Alia: I do not believe it started from this concept because, among the party leaders, Mehmet was considered the man who would come after Enver Hoxha. While Hysni Kapo was alive, there was a kind of doubt as to who would be Enver’s successor, but absolutely not for me, as I was in the third or fourth place.
After Hysni died, it was Mehmet who was considered the successor. Even we, the secretaries of the Central Committee, when Enver was not there, went to Mehmet for advice. Therefore, this was not the motive.
At the moment when Mehmet’s frictions with Enver began, over the issue of his son’s engagement, he may have thought of some conspiracy in which he also included you…?
Alia: He may have thought many things, but I am not able to speak about what he thought.
After his death, a cold stance was maintained, with an official communiqué. Then, a criminalizing campaign began against him as a poly-agent, etc. Do you, after 25 years, still stand by the accusations that he was an agent of the Yugoslavs, Americans, Russians, etc.?
Alia: Mehmet’s suicide complicated the problem, because the question arose: why did he do this? Why did he kill himself? It was precisely this. When I was informed of Mehmet’s killing [death], I went to Enver to notify him. The first thing Enver said: “But why did he kill himself?”
He asked himself the question. He did not want an answer from me. So, this question arose. And later, after a day or two, in Enver’s office, he asked me a question: “Have you seen those documents that came to us in 1964 about Mehmet?”
I had not seen anything and told him: “No, I don’t know anything.” He got up—they were in Hysni Kapo’s safe, which had died at that time. Enver kept Hysni’s safe in his own safe. He opened that safe and gave me an envelope with file cards, which were foreign intelligence file cards.
Whether authentic or not, I cannot say. The fact is that Enver and Hysni had seen them in 1964, only these two, and had reached the conclusion that this was a provocation by the Russians, to separate us from Mehmet.
And, for this reason, they had kept it closed for about 17 years (1964–1981). Since Mehmet killed himself, Enver began to believe that these were true. I cannot say anything about these documents. To be honest, when I read them, it seemed as if you were dealing with an agent of their Intelligence Service. Whether they were true or not, I cannot say anything.
In 1987, at our embassy in Argentina, an American handed over a letter, which stated: “Those documents that were given to you in 1964 are true.” So, when both Mehmet and Enver had died. I have seen that document, I have read it to the Central Committee of the Party, and I told them: “I do not want any comment, but it is to be placed in the archive.” It should be in the archive.
Does it strike you as somewhat ridiculous…?
Alia: It may be ridiculous, it may be nothing. Today, I cannot pronounce myself at all, as I have no data. I am speaking about what was real.
But with your heart?
Alia: With my heart, I say this: If Mehmet had been such since 1942–43, when he was in the concentration camp, until 1981 when he killed himself, that’s 40 years. What was he waiting for? He was at the head of the country. If he had been an agent of the Americans or the British, what more did they want to subdue Albania?! Mehmet would have acted.
But until then, he had not acted. By that, I mean, an agent of that level causes an upheaval. He doesn’t just say: …this one is like this, and that one is like that…! Empty talk. So, he did not do such an action. He had many opportunities, for example during the time of the break with the Soviets. From this point of view, the conclusions on that matter are doubtful.
In 1981, the Yugoslav press called what happened to Mehmet a “murder” and said that “with the murder of Mehmet Shehu, Albanian irredentism received a heavy blow.” Meanwhile, from some analyses being done in America regarding Albanian-Yugoslav relations, Mehmet Shehu was considered a representative of the hardline wing regarding Kosovo. This is also how the writings initiated in the newspaper “Bashkimi,” an organ closer to the government, i.e., closer to Mehmet Shehu, were viewed…?!
Alia: These are conclusions that the Americans may have drawn, which I am not aware of. Regarding the Kosovo issue, Enver Hoxha was the opponent of the Serbs over Kosovo. It is quite evident in his writings, but that does not mean Mehmet was not like that.
But I believe that the expression used by the Yugoslavs about “…the end of irredentism…” has to do with the fact that, considering Mehmet’s fierce and strong character, they may have thought that this man could make an adventure in Kosovo, meaning to enter Kosovo militarily.
Was there any reserve military plan for this?
Alia: Such plans may have existed in the General Staff, but I am not in the current of those plans. From this, I say it may be more of an assumption than a confirmation. This confirms nothing. In any case, attacking Yugoslavia would have been an adventure, especially given the weight it had in Western circles.
There is a logic that interprets the fate of the Shehu family as an inspiration of the respective families, meaning Enver Hoxha’s family. If you look, there are many similarities in the formation of the children, similar schools, similar workplaces, but a cultural difference. What do you think; did the families influence Enver Hoxha’s harshness towards Mehmet Shehu?
Alia: Regarding this issue, of family relations, I am not inclined to see it that way, because I do not believe that between two main leaders of the country there was a competition over whether your child or mine is more advanced, more developed, etc. It seems to me that it should not be seen that way either.
You are dealing with two main personalities who have other, much larger problems than that of their children. What happened to Mehmet with his son was a tragedy for him, which led him to suicide… But nothing more. / Memorie.al
To be continued in the next issue
