From Aleksandër Meksi
Part Two
(Palace of Brigades, December 11, 1990)
Memorie.al/ Ramiz Alia enters the hall where the meeting was set to take place, applauded, accompanied by the Minister of Education Skënder Gjinushi and the First Secretary of the Union of Labour Youth of Albania, Lisen Bashkurti. Initially, Alia meets with some of the participants in this meeting, and then holds a speech, where he makes known the decisions taken by the Plenum of the Central Committee of the Party of Labour of Albania, regarding the latest developments in the country.
Continues from the previous issue
Ramiz Alia: Thank you very much. That is why I speak with you with an open heart, because I also wish to hear your opinions. Tell me your opinions as you have them, so that I may know them, as concisely as possible.
Shinasi Rama: Our request is this: that political pluralism is clearly formulated.
Ramiz Alia: This idea you have is formulated very clearly in this decision.
Shinasi Rama: It seems to me that it is a phrase…
Ramiz Alia: That doesn’t matter at all. You are wrong, you are wrong, and I will explain to you why. This fact that the opinion was expressed that it is in the interest of democratizing the life of the country and of pluralization, the creation… (interruption from the hall). What did you say? Today we are talking, you say it’s not right. With this, this conversation ends. You understand, this is clear. Is this clear?
Zef Brozi: Yes, it is clear. Yes that you agree with pluralism.
Ramiz Alia: Yes, I agree, and the Central Committee of the Party expressed this opinion.
…Exchanges of words in the hall…
Mimoza Ferraj: Comrade Ramiz, excuse me, I had a direct question for you.
Arben Imami: Leave it now.
Azem Hajdari:I wanted to clarify one issue here. First of all, I want to speak to you on behalf of the organization of young intellectuals that has been created these days. I want to assure you that this movement…
Ramiz Alia: You must go first to the Ministry of Justice, you are aware of this (laughs).
Azem Hajdari: …that this movement is intended to have democratic goals in support of the reforms undertaken by you yourself as president. It is not an imposed movement, nor bought, nor sold, nor as it might have been interpreted. This…
Ramiz Alia: The press has never interpreted it.
From the hall, Mimoza Ferraj intervenes: The press interpreted it, comrade Ramiz, as a movement that contradicts party policy.
Azem Hajdari: It’s not true, it’s not true.
Ramiz Alia: Look, you are wrong, you are wrong. I invite you, look, when you enter into dialogue, you must be well and correctly informed, otherwise we waste time in vain. Because we say words that have not been said. No one has said that, no one has said that. Minimization is another problem, misinterpretation is another.
(Interventions from the hall)
Azem Hajdari: Comrade Ramiz, we have presented a program to you on behalf of this movement, and this program has been presented by us taking into account national feelings and nothing else, and the democracy which has entered a favorable course for the people, but we think it could be even more accelerated. In fact, we have thought that, just as you said that democracy is not a boulevard, there have been obstacles. These obstacles, in my opinion – and I am also expressing the opinion of the comrades of this Young Intellectuals Movement – these obstacles for our people in this period we are in are difficult. Also for you. (Interruptions from the hall… debate among the young men…)
Azem Hajdari: Look, I also speak in your name…
Ramiz Alia: Speak, brother, speak, and let us listen. Let me see what you have to say.
Azem Hajdari: Therefore, we are pleased that you accepted the dialogue, despite some difficulties that arose to reach the dialogue.
Ramiz Alia: You yourselves created the difficulties.
Azem Hajdari: The difficulties can be called, in general, both objective and subjective. (Zef Brozi intervenes: that doesn’t matter, past things. Let’s continue.) Is this the certainty on our part that this is not a movement as might have been interpreted not by the press, but by particular individuals? I do not mean the official opinion, but what has been said – the opinion that was expressed that it is a rebellion; this is a shame. The student youth, I think, must be supported by you as President, by the Presidium of the People’s Assembly, in these reforms, and by the Party as the first initiator in these democratic reforms. This is a great help.
Ramiz Alia: This must be supported with all forces.
Azem Hajdari: With all forces.
Ramiz Alia: The democratization of the country’s life is the alpha and omega of our development. We must all be clear on this.
Azem Hajdari: Therefore, with this program…
Ramiz Alia: Just one thing. Forgive me for interrupting you, forgive me because I am older, just one thing must be kept in mind: a little patience is needed, because things are not done so easily.
Azem Hajdari: It’s not that we are not for patience; in fact, we are for democracy…
Ramiz Alia: Right. I will explain to you, in fact, why patience is needed.
Azem Hajdari: We are for patience, but patience must be. But once we enter into democratic processes, this is the good of all our people, the desire of all our people; in these processes we must be persistent. I say this because in this program we have presented and approved point by point the opinion of all the students – it has been presented with all the students, and we as representatives here are authorized by them to defend this program, i.e., to enter into dialogue about this program, to present our arguments for each point of the program.
(Ramiz Alia intervenes: very good.) The student comrades…
Ramiz Alia: Will you present these to me?
Intervention from the hall: To the people, comrade Ramiz.
Ramiz Alia: I don’t need these things. Listen… You must present the program, first of all, to the Ministry of Justice, understand?
Hall: It’s not a program, they are requests.
Ramiz Alia: Excuse me, but he said “program”.
Hall: He is wrong.
Ramiz Alia: He is wrong, ah? Okay, okay, okay.
Azem Hajdari: Requests, requests, not a program.
Ramiz Alia: They are requests? He said “program”, that’s why I said…
Azem Hajdari: This democratic movement, as you sees here we are representatives from every faculty, including the Agricultural Institute, the Higher Institute of Arts, and the Vojo Kushi Institute. We also have some pedagogues, who represent the young pedagogues, who will be part of this intellectuals’ movement. Therefore, we have come to express these requests through this representation and to assure you of our conviction regarding these requests. The first request, as is known, is your support for the democratic reforms; I believe you will be aware of that. As for other requests, you know the program; now this comrade who has the program can speak – not the program, the requests. The student comrades have told me to ask you, as far as possible, that this dialogue, considering the circumstances, be recorded and broadcast so that the students can listen.
Ramiz Alia: It is recorded, and it will be broadcast. Everything.
Azem Hajdari: This is our good, the good of the students, and the good of all those who want to channel this into other avenues…
Ramiz Alia: Not their bad.
Azem Hajdari: Their bad (Ramiz laughs, the hall also laughs).
Ramiz Alia: Their bad, because if it were their good…
Blendi Gonxhe: Please forgive Azem, he is extremely tired; he has carried the weight of four, maybe five days, and perhaps he is not expressing himself at the right time. Please forgive him.
Ramiz Alia: Look, I am not a language teacher. I don’t notice those things. I noticed the ideas he said; those slips are nothing, it doesn’t matter now. Now, please, very briefly and on concrete things – concrete things that are truly worth the trouble to discuss.
Arben Imami: Since you have held a party plenum, which advances from the previous positions of the Party of Labour of Albania, what we have come to discuss will change – that is, our request relatively changes: the request of the students and the pedagogues who have joined the student movement, which is an intellectual movement, which does not want at any moment for excesses to occur in this movement, that does not want the ultra-right or ultra-left to stick their noses into this movement.
Ramiz Alia: I will tell you just one thing – don’t take it badly. I was not pleased that you did not obey me. I told you to come to the lesson and discuss it.
Tefalin Malshyti: Comrade Ramiz, you said without conditions, you said without conditions.
Ramiz Alia: Yes, yes, without conditions, but in discussion…
Azem Hajdari: Comrade Ramiz, I was there that night when you received us. And I wanted to clarify something for you…
Ramiz Alia: Leave it, don’t clarify it, and don’t clarify it at all.
Azem Hajdari: It needs to be clarified because here is where the problem originates.
Ramiz Alia: No, no. Leave it, Azem, leave the stories now. What do you have, son?
Arben Imami: That is, the Student Movement does not ask for organizations that declare themselves electoral subjects, etc., etc. Why is our Party or our Assembly afraid to clearly and precisely define a political party? Then interpretations would be impossible, and for this, as President, you would help us, and you would help all democratic forces.
Ramiz Alia:Now, Arben Imami: one minute, please. Because as long as it is an organization, or an association, or a political party, then the right-wing forces that currently have potential in our state…
Arben Imami: In our state?
Ramiz Alia: The left forces – excuse me; excuse me, pardon, and pardon. The left forces. The bureaucracy that wants to stay in chairs that way is, for me, left – it is the extreme left.
Arben Imami: It is the right.
Ramiz Alia: For us it is left.
Arben Imami: How is it left? It is right.
Ramiz Alia: Depends on how you see it. For us, you are in the center (Ramiz laughs, the hall also laughs). For us, they are the extreme left; I perceive it that way. Although left or right depends on how you see it.
Ramiz Alia: Alright, alright.
Arben Imami: We have to start from the basic categories in government. We don’t have time to deal with this.
A girl from the hall: Who is the bureaucrat that hinders this? Are you with us or not?
Ramiz Alia: Whoever is a bureaucrat hinders. Not only in this situation, but in every period of society, bureaucratism is a brake on development. The same thing here.
Arben Imami: Comrade Ramiz, comrade President, also regarding the right-wing forces that exist here – there are right-wing extremists who want to profit from this situation, this positive revolutionary movement of the youth, and perhaps give it other directions, and perhaps have even made provocations – which these comrades, especially those who have been at the head of this work, have not allowed or at least have tried not to allow. The establishment, the possibility of other parties, would leave those outside the parties. Because being right-wing and with fascist ideas, they would not have the opportunity to present their programs.
Ramiz Alia: No one will come out with fascist ideas.
Arben Imami: Then if no one will come out, then regardless… I am for this.
Ramiz Alia: Don’t be naïve, you’re a grown boy.
Arben Imami; I know that. Regardless, if they don’t come out, they will militate within an organization, within a certain political party, and regardless of their convictions, they will implement that program. If they implement the program and pay their dues, they are in order with their party – let’s say Social Democratic – we can put four names behind it, it doesn’t matter what party. But they cannot fish in these troubled waters. This is my opinion. The situation is very troubled, comrade Ramiz. I am a pedagogue. I teach directing at school. The day before yesterday I found out, yesterday I went to the place, and I couldn’t stay without going to see what was happening and why it wasn’t happening. I stayed all day, and these boys also find it impossible to keep the whole situation under control. They cannot control it.
Ramiz Alia: Why? Because other forces have come?
Arben Imami: Not because other forces have come. No, no, no. (Hall intervenes: no, no). It cannot be held totally if these requests are not fulfilled.
Ramiz Alia: Alright, so with this…
Arben Imami: I am of the opinion that this request does not fulfill what the students are putting forward.
Ramiz Alia: It fulfills it completely.
Tefalin Malshyti: It does not fulfill it completely.
Ramiz Alia: Why?
Tefalin Malshyti: Firstly, because in these conditions, if we may read these – for example, one point of this request is: we are supporters of democratic reforms. (Ramiz Alia intervenes: leave that, continue below). Let’s move to the next point.
Ramiz Alia: Move to that organization you mention.
Tefalin Malshyti: Wait, they go like this: We demand political pluralism as the highest level of today’s democracy.
Ramiz Alia: Beautiful, good.
Tefalin Malshyti: As a consequence, to allow the creation of an independent political organization of students and young intellectuals.
Ramiz Alia: Yes, we allow it.
Tefalin Malshyti: The statute of which we will present to the Ministry of Justice.
Ramiz Alia: Very good. Present the statute to the Ministry of Justice, say, as an organization as you call it. There’s nothing here, present it and that’s it.
Tefalin Malshyti: Is it true that we can be allowed tomorrow?
Ramiz Alia: You are allowed tomorrow… tomorrow. Present yourselves to the Ministry of Justice.
Tefalin Malshyti: Tomorrow, because under this legislation there is no such point that allows this, that allows this.
Ramiz Alia: Present yourselves on that basis.
Zef Brozi: You student comrades will consider it a social organization; undoubtedly it requires the approval of the Ministry of Justice.
Ramiz Alia: Is this political as well?
Zef Brozi: The problem is whether it is a political organization.
Ramiz Alia: Then present the program to the Ministry of Justice, and the Ministry of Justice will give its opinion on…
Zef Brozi: I have a doubt whether it will really be considered under that designation as a political organization?
Ramiz Alia: It is called political, also political? A political organization is foreseen.
Zef Brozi: Then will it also be confirmed by some party organ?
Ramiz Alia: No, no need.
Zef Brozi: I think yes, because the constitution does not allow such a thing?
Ramiz Alia: The constitution does not require it. Therefore, you present your program to the Ministry of Justice. Request your approval according to the rules and norms that the Ministry of Justice has for social and political organizations, and it must approve it. So, that’s done. What else is there?
Tefalin Malshyti: No, we had, in a word…
Ramiz Alia: Wait, wait, and wait. Is there anything? (Intervention from the hall: this point, comrade Ramiz). This point is clear, no problem.
Arben Imami: Wait, it’s not clear, comrade Ramiz, because here it says: we demand political pluralism (reactions from the hall).
Arben Meçe: If tomorrow we want this organization to start its activity.
Ramiz Alia: The justice organs will give you an answer.
Arben Meçe: Do the justice organs hinder us for this?
Ramiz Alia: You must necessarily wait for the decision to create this organization.
Arben Meçe: So we must wait? The situation there is very electrified, and we must go today to give them an answer, your answer.
Ramiz Alia: You will go.
(in a loud voice, like a declaration) Look, student comrades. I am addressing you: present the program of your Organization to the Ministry of Justice, which, according to the rules and norms, will give you an immediate answer on this matter.
Order, I have transmitted it to the students.
Arben Meçe: Second, many families in the districts are disinformed about the issue here. The streets are unknown. Our television gave it as it thought – the competent organ for that job. It did not give disinformation; someone else gave it. Hostile elements gave it in order to disturb our comrades, our parents, and everything we have, our friends. And this is reflected in the phone calls they make, where they insist especially on health. Would it not be good for our press to inform about this gathering today, and that would be good…
Ramiz Alia:You have strayed from that. What am I saying here? What we are discussing here will be broadcast. It will be broadcast on television programs.
Someone from the hall: Not treated as second-hand.
Ramiz Alia: It can be broadcast. It will be broadcast on television programs. Second-hand or first-hand – I am not the news editor. (Arben Meçe intervenes: Forgive us, comrade Ramiz…) …This conversation we are having now, I propose to go to the student city, and just as it am recorded, to be broadcast.
Blendi Gonxhe: Comrade Ramiz, we trust you completely.
Arben Meçe: Comrade Ramiz, forgive me. For this problem for which we gathered here today, you gathered an entire Plenum.
Ramiz Alia: Not only for this.
Arben Meçe: This has been the main problem; you yourself said it. Should the press also postpone this for a special program? It seems like dragging to me.
Ramiz Alia: For which?
Arben Meçe: For this meeting we are having today.
Ramiz Alia: The press gave clarifications the first day. Consequently, also in the newspaper today, it said that you gathered, made your requests, and requested a meeting with the president, the president…
A girl from the hall intervenes: But they said 400 people.
Ramiz Alia: You are misinformed. 400 people were not given, and still you are misinformed. No figure was given. So, look, I notice you are not well informed.
TV editor: Look, look, excuse me, comrade Ramiz. I am the television editor, and such things were not said. At least television has not given such news – that there are 400 people or that there aren’t 400, that they are enemies or aren’t enemies. (Intervention from the hall: we have been called class enemies.)
Ramiz Alia: No, no, no, nothing has been said.
Hall: You have called them disturbances (debates in the hall from many people).
Arben Demeti: Television called them disturbances.
Ramiz Alia: No, no, no, please. Not disturbances, they were called disorders. Please… listen here.
(Addressing the students of the University of Tirana):
It was not said “disturbances”. You disinform. The word “disorders” was said. It was not said 400, nor 200, nor 100 people. By using such figures, you disinform.
Therefore, I beg, I beg all serious students – and I love them because they are serious – to be serious in everything. This is the good of the homeland; it is the good of the students.
Arben Lika: Comrade Ramiz, excuse me.
Ramiz Alia: Let him finish… who started this? Are you finished? Who said “excuse me” there?
Arben Lika: Me, me. The word was not “disturbances” but “disorders”.
Ramiz Alia: Leave it now.
Arben Lika: No, no, just one thing. What difference is there between “disorders” and “disturbances”?
Ramiz Alia: Now I told you, let’s not get into linguistics. It was “disorders” because in the actions that have taken place there have been disorders. How can there not have been disorders?
Blendi Gonxhe: Mr. President, please don’t be bothered, listen to us one more time. We have come here from the Student City, and let’s say things as they are, concretely. Forgive us for taking more of your time than necessary because you are very busy at this time. We have come from there, and there are over 2000 or 3000 people waiting, Tirana residents, our relatives, young men and women. (Ramiz Alia intervenes: that’s why it’s good to go). We have come from there and we parted with these words: the bus was about to break, asking us for democracy and asking us to represent our comrades correctly for what they sent us for. And cheering also in your name. There was a hand with two fingers raised, but it was lowered again. No problem, we lowered them too.
Ramiz Alia:You should cut off their fingers, because that sign is a bit… it compromises others. (Interventions from the hall). No, no, you must be careful, that’s why I address you all.
Blendi Gonxhe: Oh boys, oh boys, please. To be sincere to the end. Since they will listen to us, and since they have great hope in you, we beg you, for the students – since they will listen to us – to understand us, because we had taken on a different task here. We had taken on the task to come, present our requests, and leave if you did not accept them, and if you did accept them, to bring the good news. Since we came here and you gave us the good news before we even came well, we must tell the students that our goal has changed to some extent because the Albanian Communist Party (intervention from the hall: one game; the Party of Labour of Albania) finally recognized the principle that there can be other political parties. Whether this will happen or not, whether it is a lie or not – this is not known.
Ramiz Alia: It will happen. This is not a lie. I am telling you, it will happen.
Blendi Gonxhe: So we have taken the word of President Ramiz Alia here, and this will be realized.
Ramiz Alia: I am telling you that the decision of the Plenum of the Central Committee on this issue is a decision that will be implemented. The justice organs, the state organs must implement the laws. I, as President – since I’m not like that, you don’t think of me like that, but only like this (laughs).
Blendi Gonxhe: Only like that we respect you.
Ramiz Alia: Good. Okay, okay. (Intervention from the hall). Thank you very much (laughs). Neither the Constitution nor our laws prohibit, you understand, the implementation of what is said. I have said at the 12th Plenum of the Central Committee, I have expressed my opinion on pluralism. This decision of the 13th Plenum of the Central Committee advances this idea, which accepts pluralization also party pluralization, pluralist organization, not only, so to speak.
Arben Imami: But what problem does the term “party” create? Why isn’t it said…
Ramiz Alia: It creates no problem.
Arben Demeti: What if tomorrow we, as a youth organization – since comrade Lisien Bashkurti is here – call it the Albanian Youth Party? Can we call it a party?
Lisien Bashkurti: The youth will decide that… (Many voices from the hall intervene).
Ramiz Alia: Listen, listen. Alright, you are created.
Arben Demeti: Will the students create it?
Ramiz Alia: Why won’t you participate there?
Arben Demeti: I am in the youth organization. Can we call it a party?
Ramiz Alia: They have called it, they have called it./Memorie.al
